A New Dictionary

So true!

The fact that it's true makes it almost sad.

But not as sad as the joke above *rolls eyes*

So true. . . .

I don't like that cartoon at all. It essentially mocks all who aren't homeschooled. You know what kind of image it gives? It gives an image of a small secluded group looking at the rest of the world and pointing and laughing, all the while failing to realise they are people too.

I am so sick of this. I'm sick of homeschoolers going on about how great homeschooling is and how crap public is and dismissing public people as all the same (I concede not all of you do that). WE ARE NOT ALL IDENTICAL FISHES IN A TIN!!!! There are so many different kinds of people in public school - we are NOT all the same if you but realise it. There are so many different kinds of people in school, from all walks of life. Also, we do not all come out the same - everyone is unique.

OK now that I've probably offended a few dozen people, I would just like to say that this is not exclusively a bash homeschooling post. I'm sick of public school people always dismissing homeschoolers as weirdos. There are some very strange homeschoolers out there, but also real cool ones. It's the same in public school.

What's the difference really? One group is taught at home by their parents, the other is taught in a school by teachers. Both have pros and cons. This cartoon is exactly what I am THOROUGHLY sick of. Homeschoolers saying how great they have it and pre-judging "schoolies", then the public schoolers saying and doing the same (granted, I'm probably about the only one of "that crowd" that visits this blog).

Do you guys actually want to break these misconceptions? Do you want to get amongst your fellow human beings? Then please stop this. We are all equal under God. This kind of thing is exactly what drives an even bigger wedge between us and you. I don't want that. I don't want myself or anyone else to be judged based on the kind of schooling background we have. So come on please - let's end this cycle.

I have corrected the cartoon:
Click

Just to clarify; This is a cartoon and I posted it tongue in cheek.

There is a shortened version of the cartoon here:
http://www.inflatablestudios.com/images/saff-01B.jpg

I apologize if I offended you, ME, and I see where you are coming from.

ME, forgive me if I offend you.

As I understand it, the people that designed the school system, notably, John Dewey, (Not the same one that developed the Dewey Decimal System), stated that the object of the public school was not to teach.

The object was not to teach people academic work, but to take the vast majority and teach them not to ask questions. That way they would be taught not to think and wouldn't question anything immoral that the government does.

They then take a few and teach them how to lead a country, being careful to show them how to lead in the way that isn't God's Way.

Now I realize that many students do break out of the mold, particularly Christians if they evaluate everything under God's unchanging law rather than taking everything as fact. I do admire people who do that, like you, ME, and Joel, among others.

One more thing, the cartoon doesn't mock those who aren't homeschooled, it mocks those who go to school and are sucked into the 'mold' that schools teach.

You don't have to get offended, MystExplorer, we're not attacking you. Personally, I don't appreciate your statement claiming, "It gives an image of a small secluded group looking at the rest of the world and pointing and laughing, all the while failing to realise they are people too." Have we ever pre-judged, laughed at, or in any way ridiculed you or your friends (some of them ours, too) for having a public education? I don't want to do that, and I hope that neither me nor my homeschooled friends have ever done so. Public school may not be that great in many ways, but those that do go to it are people, yes. In fact, I know that some (including you) have done very well in school (congrats on your results from last year, btw!).

We don't dismiss "schoolies" as "all the same", though I know that some prejudge them. Remembering the old adage "Don't judge a book by its cover" would fit nicely here.

Actually sometimes you do label us without realising it. One of you once said something about how all girls who go to school behave a certain way. The thing is some of you seem to very rarely associate with non-Christians on a friendship level. I would argue that we all should, otherwise it does not give across a good witness. Our job is to save these people by getting out there, building relationships with them and ultimately letting Christ shine through us. We can't do that if we just stay in exclusively Christian groups all the time. That's one reason why I prefer public school-in some ways it helps kids prepare themselves for the rough ride that is life in the world out there (backed up with good parenting of course so they know the difference between right and wrong etc.).

Also I wish to point out you are basing your arguments on the American school system. One should not base philosophies on what goes on in another country - We don't always exactly copy the Americans. Furthermore it is not just Christians, plenty of non-Christians also don't come out exactly the same. Like I said, everyone is different. You'll only turn out like everyone else if you want to.

I'm sorry if my initial statement upset you, but that is honestly the impression I get from reading that cartoon.

P.S. I don't want to generalise. I know all too well it is not a trait held universally by you all. I know most of you don't consciously behave that way. It's more aimed at those who might hold views like that - I don't know if any of you do, but just in case I really wanted to make my point and views clear. After all we should be real with each other.

I think it was me that made the generalization about girls.

Firstly, I knew it wasn't true, it just seems that way sometimes. :)

Secondly, I made it about all girls, not schoolgirls.

Thirdly, I didn't see why you would care, seeing as you're a guy!

I will try not to make generalizations in future.

Briar, what was the name of that book that Andrew Pudewa recommended?

The Underground History of American Education by John Gatto

Ok I'd like to state first of all that I realise none of this is personal, and I hope no one takes what I say in the following personally either.

I actually would never have connected the interpretation of homeschoolers pointing and laughing at school kids from that particular cartoon. After all it is a cartoon and supposed to be light hearted and not taken seriously! You could take it another way it could point to the fact that homeschoolers get taught completely different things even to their siblings whereas everyone in a class learns the same thing. Neither of those is necessarily better than the other, merely different! That doesn’t make in any less true for all that.

One thing that homeschoolers do have the advantage in is that we get a Christian education. We study with the Christian World View (hopefully) behind everything we do. In school it is certainly not the Christian World View that the curriculums are based on. I don’t say this without good cause, I listen to all the school kids, I ask them questions, and of course I hear a lot of stuff from homeschooling resources but it seems to match fairly well with what the school kids I know say.

I hope I would never judge people on what kind of schooling they have had. Each school is different; I’ve friends at Massey High, Henderson High, Auckland Girls Grammar, Mt. Albert Grammar, Rutherford High, and some at private Christian schools among others. The same as each homeschooling family is different.

But ME have you ever considered that girls who go to school are different from girls who are homeschooled? They are you know. I don’t mean to imply that homeschoolers are necessarily better, but we have widely differing interests and values. And many schoolgirls (I say many, not all) although they are totally different in themselves act the same way because it’s cool, or because everyone else does it, or because they like it! I have actually suffered a fair bit at the hands of schoolgirls personally. But let’s not go there!

Ever heard the saying “birds of a feather flock together”? Well it’s true. People with common interests will hang out together.

I understand what you mean that we can’t base our arguments on the American system. Okay, take a step back. Where did the NZ school system originate? We didn’t make our own up. We took existing systems and then altered them to suit this country’s needs. Which systems do you think we copied? British and American of course. And where did they originate from? They came from the old Prussian education system. If you’re interested you could look it up it’s rather interesting.

Of course there are pros and cons to each current arrangement. Personally I’m very glad I’m homeschooled. But that doesn’t stop me sometimes wishing I did go to school. However a lot of my school friends do things that I don’t think are right, they seem to me to not necessarily go against the letter of the bible, but against the spirit of it, as well as being harmful to themselves and others! Actually some of it I would be ashamed to ever repeat. (And we don’t get all the swearing at home either. I think it’s dirty and gutterish, and what of the 10 commandments?)

I know each person is different, whether schooled or homeschooled. But everyone does absorb some of the atmosphere that is around, and they do get moulded by what they are taught. They won’t BE alike. God created each person to be unique, and everyone has their own character. However if you have 30 people in a class all being taught the same thing and the same way of thinking, is it not natural that to a certain extent they will think and act alike?

Firstly, I would like to point out we do choose our classes at High school. Different classes to different interests. It's rare that people all take the same subjects.

School has its issues it's true, but in some ways it is good to be in that environment - it prepares you for the harsh reality of the world out there. The world is like that. If school is backed up by a good grounding in Christian morals from parents etc. then the people will know that some of the stuff is wrong (that doesn't mean going over the top with rules and stuff - IMO restrictions often will make the kids want to rebel).

The thing with homeschooling is much of the time is spent at home with parents or with other homeschoolers. That's good in the fact it gives you a solid grounding in Christianity and the Bible, but inevitably one day you're going to go into the world out there, and it will hurt all the more because you have been essentially sheltered from the reality of the world that is present in the school system. I know this is not so much the case for some of you, however I believe nothing can prepare you better for the world out there than hands on experience. I am saying this because I care and I hate the idea of seeing someone dropped in the deep end without warning. It's a recipe for disaster. School has helped me in preparing for the harsh reality of the world out there.

Do you want to know why I haven't been "sucked in" however? It's because the exposure to the world through school has been balanced by things such as Youth group, church and just hanging out with good Christian friends. I have a 4x4 group which keeps me accountable and is a place I can bring up all the issues and confusion.

Basically what I am saying is that public school has some whacked out elements, but in the long run that exposure has helped me prepare for the world I am now starting to enter into, but I have not been sucked in by the bad stuff because I have had that other element which has kept me alive. All without rules and restrictions (my parents let me do what I want, although they give me advice and have boundaries in the home), and exclusively hanging out with Christians. I have quite a few non-Christian friends that I made in school, and they know I'm a Christian and they respect that, in fact it makes for some good debates sometimes ;-)

The reason I get that image from the cartoon is because I am not a homeschooler. I have a different background and hence a different perspective on things than you. I'm not rubbishing your background, it's just a fact of life that people with a different background see things differently e.g. the Mohammad cartoons - many westerners see them as just light-hearted fun, but Muslims find it deeply offensive.

If you are wondering btw, I will send my kids (one day when I have some :P) to school. Of course I would pick the school that gives the best education (because that's what it's really about), but I will send them to school.

Well can't you get experience of the world without going to school?

I think I am well prepared for my job, which is a non-Christian environment, even though I never went to school. I didn't feel as I went 'in the deep end' as you said.

The point I am trying to make is that it isn't necessary to go to school to be prepared for the 'real world'. I think you could even be more prepared by being homeschooled because it gives you more time to practice and learn Christian morals before joining the workforce.

If your parents care about you, they won't let you into the "deep end" without training you how to swim. I probably know as much about the world as someone who has gone to a public school. I don't like some of my knowledge, but it's there. Some might call it "a loss of innocence". Besides, should we really shatter that innocence before the right time? I've known 7 and 8 year-olds who know things that they ought never know. There's time enough to discover that when you're in your teens. And thanks to the "wonder" of modern media, nobody really needs school to "educate" them in the ways of the world anyway.

In other words, "we already know".

Never said you didn't. You lack experience. There is a difference. Knowing about something does not mean you have experienced it. You can learn all you like about riding a roller coaster while you wait in line, but that doesn't mean you're ready for it - if you haven't ridden smaller roller-coasters first then the big one is super scary.

Never ever ever go into something foreign thinking you know everything about it - chances are you don't until you have actually been there.

School is not the only way to get experience, but it is certainly one of the best.

Experience, huh? I suppose it's a bit like saying, "You can't claim to know what it's like to be run over by a truck. You haven't experienced it."

I don't wanna be run over by a truck. :-(

Hehe...:-P

ME, in your opinion is the ONLY advantage to going to school to gain experience for the 'real' world?

BTW, welcome back Vi!!!